Getting to Know: Catherine Grenfell

Teaching has become such a defining passion in your career, from lecturing radio theory to mentoring new talent. What do you feel is most important to pass on to the next generation entering music and media today?

I think passing on your knowledge and experiences (the good and especially the bad), it so truly important for the next generation. Sometimes people are scared to pass on knowledge and mentor as they might feel that the younger generation will take their jobs etc. But without sharing and building a new generation, the art form won’t thrive.

I think it is so important to remember back to when you were younger and trying to find someone to help you and knowing that you had the drive or talent, but just needed some advice and direction to help you. Did you find that in your younger years? How would it have changed the trajectory of your career?

I also find that sharing my mistakes and failures are not only such an incredibly reflection on what I was able to achieve, but can also really help in someone else’s career. I LOVE sharing knowledge. I LOVE seeing my previous students and musicians or anyone I have given advice to, succeed. It is the most beautiful feeling. And to perhaps have changed someone’s life is one of the most important things you can do as a human being.”

You’ve moved between radio, agency production, and now client leadership in the digital space. How has your understanding of what it means to support music shifted as your roles have become more behind the scenes and strategic?

From when I was super young I had an incredible love and passion for music and then it became my entire existence. I got to listen to brand new music and help musicians in their career as well as give them a platform to not only perform but also have their music heard. From there I went into music in agency production, which I was also able to help in terms of giving guidance as well as placing the voices in ads.

What I only realised later how was emotionally draining it became, where people were constantly asking my advice, constantly seeking my help and it is actually quite soul destroying to not be able to help anyone. It made me incredibly sad to listen to a lot of music or artists and just know that I couldn’t help them. When I was making the decision to move into client leadership in agency, I had an epiphany where I realised that I was leaving the music industry in a sense and that I was actually able to go back to listening to music for the love of it.

In executive production and client service, you’re constantly translating creative energy into real world outcomes. What have you learned about balancing artistic integrity with commercial briefs, without losing what makes the work meaningful?

I think a lot of times there is definite artistic integrity, clients are coming to you for a specific reason, because they know that the music will be beautiful and original. I also really loved that there is an association for music in advertising (CCA), where they have a standard in terms of music fees which regulates the industry. I think it is so important to have that so that young upcoming musicians don’t get screwed over where agencies or production houses are trying to pay just a bare minimum.

It also creates a sense, that the musician is valued. At the end of the day, you as a musician need to decide if you will stick by what your sound is or what you stand for, or if you will give the client what they want. I think there is room for both.

When it comes to agency music work, you need to sometimes put your artistic creativity aside and compose what the client asks for. You can definitely give your opinion on the piece and give advice, but when it comes down to it, the agency or director know what they want and it makes it easier on yourself to create what they are looking for. Nowadays you are also competing with AI and brands are cutting budgets extensively and so they use of AI is getting bigger and bigger in the industry.

As a DJ and MC at major festivals, your job is partly about reading the room and shaping experience in real time. How does curating a live set differ from curating music for radio or for professional projects?

With live sets, if it is a corporate, I always find out beforehand who my audience will be. I need to take into account how long my set is, Are there other DJ’s or entertainment? What is the theme or vibe for the event?

For corporates I normally just smash out a whole bunch of bangers (often cheesy) that I know will work for everyone in the room. It can be often extremely difficult as there are such a wide variety of factors – age, race, male/female split. Each section has specific music they often enjoy, but you need to try and keep everyone happy.

I truly love the fact that I enjoy all types of music. So I can start playing some Amapiano, go into some Hip Hop and then into some pop. It is super important to be able to have that flexibility and to keep everyone happy. I am also always happy to take requests (within reason) as I am there to provide a service.

When it comes to being able to play music that I am able to personally curate for the sound I want, it is super exciting. I love delving into tracks and genres that I wouldn’t normally play that I think will be a vibe and will be eclectic and bring people joy and surprise. At the end of the day, I really want people to be on the dancefloor so to be really present and see what works and what doesn’t is very important.

When it comes to curating music for radio, you are programming music for what you think listeners want and need. You are looking at what your radio station’s audience is – all the factors that make up the listeners of the station. Male, Female percentages; LSM; Culture; Age; Area all come into factoring what you are going to program. You are “influencing them” into listening to your playlist.

You play the same song numerous times in a time period so that people start recognising and hopefully begin to love the track. It is also a short and long relationship you have with the audience. You sometimes have them listening in the car for a few minutes. Or you have them listening every single day for hours on end. You are convincing them that the music you are playing is what they need to hear.

For professional projects (eg films or adverts) there are numerous people involved – the agency, the director on the project, the editor, the client. All of them will have an opinion on music and what it needs to be and what they envision. It is your job as a music advisor to listen to what they are saying and then try to understand what they need then give them options that you think will work. Sometimes you will also be set on a specific track and when you hear it on the final edit it just doesn’t work. It is then your job to give advise on how to change it and how to fix it.

After more than a decade judging awards and watching the industry evolve, you’ve had a rare long view perspective. What do you think the South African music ecosystem still needs most to truly nurture emerging talent, and what gives you hope looking forward?

“ think that we fall short with people who truly love South African music and want to promote it. We fall short in radio where they often play it safe and try to give people what they want to hear instead of being able to influence them in what they should be discovering. There was such a force in listening to radio presenters that were actually going and discovering new music and then giving you a taste of it. They were so passionate about music that you truly believed them when they would say, this is the next big thing. They were so credible and would help you in discovering new bands and songs. There also aren’t enough platforms and festivals giving emerging talent a space. We often see the same artists performing over and over.

I feel that in the advertising space, musicians and singers deserve to get paid what they are worth as well as keeping the money in South Africa, Supporting local artists instead of paying huge money to international artists. It still has a long way to go, but there are definitely numerous brands that support musicians in getting them to create original music.

I also feel that a lot of established artists can go the extra mile in terms of finding new and upcoming artists to open for them.

There is a lot of room for improvement from people that can make a difference, but it is also up to us, the general public, to support artists. Go and watch live music, buy the merch, keep those musicians surviving and in turn, those artists will make beautiful music for us to consume and feel.

Catherine was a lecturer at Boston Media House for 5 years, where she taught Radio Theory. Teaching has become a huge passion in Catherine’s life and it is very important that she shares her knowledge and helps pave the way for new talent.

She started as Head Producer at Audio Militia in 2018 (an all-encompassing music agency) and was promoted to Executive Producer in 2021. She has recently joined Tilt – a digital agency as Head of Client Services.

Her love of great music, both South African and international, has given her the opportunity to travel to different music festivals around South Africa and the World. Catherine has extended her love of music to DJing and plays a wide variety of genres from Funk, Disco, Rock, Deep House, Electro House, Pop, Hip Hop, Kwaito and Amapiano.

Catherine has MCd & DJd at many festivals and corporate events, including the SAMA’s, Oppikoppi, Mieliepop, Splashy Fen, Rocking The Daisies, Synergy, Lush Festival.

Other highlights were as a judge for The South African Music Awards for 12 years, and also as a Loeries & Ciclope Africa Awards judge.